Episode 19: What It Takes to Start Over in Real Estate After Pre-Con

Dave Bailis (00:00):

Be intentional with your business. You can’t just get a real estate licence and expect business to come to you, and you have to stay true to your convictions and keep at it. And it’s a business that rewards over time.

Chris Cook (00:17):

Welcome to this week’s episode of Mind Your Real Estate Business. This week, we’ve got Mr. Dave Bailis joining us as a not-new real estate agent by any stretch of the imagination — 22 years in the condo pre-construction market.

Dave Bailis (00:33):

Yes.

Chris Cook (00:34):

And coming over to RE/MAX Hallmark as a resale agent, you’re rejigging your real estate business essentially, starting not from zero, but …

Dave Bailis (00:46):

Well, thanks for having me on, Chris. I look forward to becoming a fully functional realtor. In the past, I was quite single-faceted. As you mentioned, 22 years in pre-construction. I was reminiscing on the early days today prepping, and I have to go all the way back to 1999 when I got my first introduction to pre-construction homes. It was the Greenwood racetrack in the Beaches — Tribute Communities. And I was doing some model home hosting, similar to open houses these days. And it was a very different world. It was very much about young couples being able to buy their first home, very conducive to first-time buyers. Over the years, that changed pretty radically to a very much investor-driven market. And I’m really excited to get back to the roots of helping real people find the best asset — or their biggest asset — which is a roof over their head.

Chris Cook (01:40):

Yeah. And I think I’m coming from a place of some ignorance about what it is that the pre-construction world really involved from a salesperson perspective. It’s something that I’ve never done. And I was actively steered away from it by some of my developer friends. They were like, “I’m not sure this is where you’re going to want to go.” And I don’t know if they saw the writing on the wall, that maybe the party was slowing down at that point. Even though it was a bit of a fevered pitch, 10, 12 years ago, there was a lot of really … It was a very aggressive market 10, 12 years ago.

Dave Bailis (02:21):

It was. It was very much about we were restricting how many units the buyers could buy versus doing much selling. The big change happened after the 2008 recovery, after the subprime problems. That’s when it really shifted from a product that was priced below resale — that made it worth the wait for an end user — to a hyper-aggressive long-term rental-based investment formula. And it was pretty easy to promote because we had such stable growth year in, year out. We were able to show about a 10-year run there of 7% growth per year. So often an investor would put down their 20%, wait five years, and have just almost automatically doubled their investment, and were able to buy another one. But a lot of factors, most notably a lack of trades to build all the buildings, shot the cost through the roof, and it’s now almost a 20 to 30% premium to buy pre-construction.

(03:25):

So it’s almost like the developers and their hard costs are taking your future appreciation from the onset. So that’s not a recipe for success. It’s not very appealing to people currently when there are so many great opportunities in the resale market. That’s the big difference now. Now that we have a lot of these modern buildings complete, there are perfectly good options for owners that are under five years old that will give you that new condo feel that you don’t have to wait for.

Chris Cook (03:55):

Right. Yeah. I’ve always been a bit of a believer that if you’re going to buy something for yourself, it’s better if you can actually walk into it and touch it versus having to wait for that thing.

Dave Bailis (04:06):

I agree. There was a lot of selling a dream. And as you probably got from your developer friends, there are so many elements that can lead to change. And where it went really smoothly for a while — when builders were able to sell out quickly, keep the construction quotes they had on file, and move forward with a profit — but as we saw when things got more challenging, and the amount of marketing effort involved the paying of outside realtors who really hijacked the market, and to no fault of their own, this is capitalism — but one thing I always found peculiar about the development business is they totally neglected Google presence. So when you search a project, say you’re waiting on one in the Beaches, you’re going to get three pages of realtor ads before you actually land on the developer page. Whereas if you’re searching for a car, you do not have that problem.

(05:02):

You get the retailer at the top of the page. So it’s a bit on the developers for neglecting that because they have basically baked in a four or 5% commission on every sale, which obviously drove their prices up. So lots of contributing factors, fast-escalating government levies — all this contributed to where we’re at now. But the driving force was always immigration and the inability for us to create enough new homes every year to keep up with that immigration. And one thing that’s happening now is the future pipeline has basically frozen and we’ve seen nothing new in the housing starts over the last year and a bit. So down the road, that is going to create a big issue in the supply and demand department.

Chris Cook (05:51):

So you think it’s going to come back?

Dave Bailis (05:53):

I think it’s going to come back, but what’s going to have to happen is immigration needs to kick back in. We need a little bit more stability in our city and country because that was always a big draw to Toronto — a very stable market. But I think the biggest thing is we need to work through the two years’ worth of inventory that’s currently sitting out there. And until that happens, there’s just not going to be the urgency or demand to command the prices we saw before.

Chris Cook (06:20):

So let’s do a little bit of a change of topic here because I think you’ve demonstrated in a couple of minutes there that you’ve got a lot of information when it comes to where you’re coming from, but you’ve come in now to the resale end of it, which is … The difference is that you had a product and people were coming to you versus what we’re looking at now. I still think that there’s a product, but the product is you instead of a condo or whatever. Now it’s like your knowledge base and your ability to be able to help somebody through that process is the draw now.

Dave Bailis (07:09):

That’s true. I think the best way to put it is I went from being very much an employee to someone that is a business, and that’s a very big difference. There are so many more elements to consider instead of just running down the same road. This is a much more all-encompassing job and career. And I think of all the things you’ve said, the most simple and poignant would be: be intentional with your business. You can’t just get a real estate licence and expect business to come to you, and you have to stay true to your convictions and keep at it. And it’s a business that rewards over time, as opposed to something in the past where you kind of had a set date and almost a guarantee of 60, 70% sales in a short period of time — that is a very different animal.

Chris Cook (08:05):

I think it’s interesting that you’re like, yeah, it does convert over time. But that being said, you’ve been with RE/MAX Hallmark now for three weeks, right?

Dave Bailis (08:15):

Yes.

Chris Cook (08:16):

Something like that. And during those three weeks, you have worked three open houses.

Dave Bailis (08:22):

Yes.

Chris Cook (08:22):

Tell us about that. Tell me what the result of that has been for you.

Dave Bailis (08:27):

Well, it’s been really positive for me. It brings me back to where my skill set lies, but it’s also promising to see those real couples, even in the chilly weekends in February, out there looking for a property. And it just really has kind of clicked for me that this doesn’t have to be all about crunching numbers. This is an amenity that people need, will always need, and in a city that remains very desirable. So I think that it’s given me a lot of hope and promise. And also as far as what’s happening in the market, there hasn’t been a day that someone hasn’t come to visit one of those open houses — at least one or two. So there’s activity going on. We’re even seeing a couple of properties in the last few days sell with multiples with zero days on the market. So there’s definitely an appetite for it.

(09:16):

And I think a lot of the media that takes numbers and stats as a whole are not separating what’s happening in Brampton versus what’s happening in the GTA, and certainly not separating the condo inventory. But if you do segregate it, I’m not seeing huge dips in home prices. They are more affordable than they’ve been recently, but the good properties are still selling quickly.

Chris Cook (09:42):

And so people are out and they’re looking at it. So this is — specifically, the purpose of this podcast is to talk to other real estate agents as well as consumers — but your experience, and because I know your experience pretty intimately, the open houses that you’ve been working, there’s not been a single open house weekend where you’ve not come out with an opportunity. I agree. And I think that that’s really important. Going from pre-construction to resale, going from where the people are coming in through the door or through online lead generation to a more — we’ll call it the 1980s approach to selling real estate — boots on the ground, belly-to-belly conversations, doing things the old-school way of open houses, picking up the phone and talking to people, sending emails. These are strategies that you and I have talked about that you’re putting into place, and three weeks into this new role, you’re generating opportunities.

Dave Bailis (10:54):

Yes. And that’s been a very key part of my psychology — to realize there’s great potential here. Because as most new agents know, they’re very overwhelmed. How do I get a client? And going into the world of online advertising, be it Instagram or Google, is very daunting when it’s such a hyper-competitive and now quite costly endeavour. So seeing that real person interaction is still attainable, even in the coldest days of February, is very promising. And I think a lot of new agents that are trying to reinvent the wheel or jump on the digital highway, so to speak, shouldn’t neglect the old time-tested methods and strategies.

Chris Cook (11:41):

Yeah, because it was like when I got into the business, I don’t know how many people actually asked themselves, “Where am I going to get my business from?” It was like a point of panic for me as I was doing my licensing, because I was like, “Well, this is all great, but who is going to sell their house or buy their house with me? How am I going to meet these people?” And so one of the things … I sort of came to a realization when I started calling my sphere that these are high-net-worth people that already have real estate agents, and they may know and like me, but are they going to trust me with their three, $4 million asset? And I found out pretty quickly, the answer was eventually, but not right away. Not right over

Dave Bailis (12:27):

There.

Chris Cook (12:29):

And so I actually went into online lead generation right out of the gate. I really leaned into that, which is like — we’re looking at 2015, 2016, when I got my licence and I started doing this — but my conversion rate initially wasn’t great, but within a year I had my conversion rate at about four to 6%.

Dave Bailis (12:59):

Pretty good for

Chris Cook (13:00):

Online. So basically, yeah, and that was a conversion rate to actually doing a deal. So I didn’t have to buy that many leads. I didn’t have to call that many people for me to be able to get through and to get things going that way. What’s been your experience? Because you’ve got a lot of online lead generation sort of experience. And so when you and I first started talking, your first question wasn’t how many online leads do you generate? Actually, it never even came up.

Dave Bailis (13:34):

Yeah. I’ve kind of had my eyes opened to it a lot recently because I’ve heard so many new agents focusing on it being their bread and butter — how they’re going to generate all their income. And having gone through an example of that with very motivated, targeted registrations in the past, working for a company that generated tons of online leads, even with people specifically registering for a specific product, most of them don’t want to be called. They live in the digital world, they want emailed information, they don’t want to talk to humans, and a huge portion of them are bots. So the actual quality of, say, an Instagram lead where someone’s just got a pre-populated profile and all they have to do is click on a link and they’re registered — it’s very difficult to convert. And I think anyone that’s going to plan for that to be their whole lead generation strategy is going to get frustrated, exhausted. And people online who are registering are also registering everywhere else.

(14:44):

So as I think I’ve heard you say in one of your previous podcasts, these people just get annoyed when they have seven, eight realtors calling them throughout their follow-up schedule. So it’s a very daunting number when you see the percentage of leads that come in online, but when you break it down, the value of those leads is very overrated, in my opinion.

Chris Cook (15:08):

Yeah. And I do want to qualify it because I think that there’s a difference between a good lead. I think about Glengarry Glen Ross, right? “The leads aren’t garbage” — I need the good leads. Yeah. But I think that there is a difference between good leads and bad leads and how they’re generated. If they’re generated with value versus a spam-type approach, if you’re able to offer something of value to somebody first and allow yourself to nurture them over time, and then have a phone call that’s based on a pre-existing — while digital, but pre-existing — relationship, versus just harvesting people’s information on Facebook.

Dave Bailis (15:57):

Exactly. And there’s such an icebreaker when you can call … Someone’s obviously irritated they’re getting a call, but right away you can say, “I’m calling in regard to this thing you requested info on.” And that lowers the walls quickly and allows you to kind of get down to business. And you touched on something really important that was taught to me by a previous broker: that you absolutely have to be offering something in return if you want their info. To ask for some kind of “learn more by clicking this button” — you’ll probably just get fake info. But if you’re offering something of value, be it an exclusive price list for a condo project or a list of very exclusive off-market inventory, that’s something people can’t just get generically. And that’s something that I think people would respond to and would register for, be it just for curiosity or to move forward working with you, because that would be a great way to add value to the services you offer beyond MLS.

Chris Cook (17:00):

So the next question I have for you — and you and I, I’ve never actually asked you this, but I’m interested to know. Somebody with 22 years of experience selling real estate, why would you join a team?

Dave Bailis (17:17):

My positions in the past were not conducive to creating a proper database. The contacts I made over the years were always the property of the development company or marketing company or wherever I was situated. As I mentioned before, it was very much “you’re in your lane, we’re in our lane.” And although we followed up with these individuals, when you left one site to go to the next, you lost access to all that information. And being such a small world from one developer to the next, you certainly wouldn’t want to burn any bridges by violating those contractual terms. So that’s the main reason. Also, over the last 10 to 12 years, the goal has been how many realtors do you know to help sell out our condo project as quickly as possible? And that obviously does not create the greatest database, although I’ve found that cooperation can be quite useful, and getting to know those people definitely has some value.

(18:15):

But I think anyone who’s been in the business for 22 years, you’d assume, would have a relatively substantial database — but that just shows how niche pre-construction sales was. And I did spend a little bit of time on the other side, but that was nine years ago or so. And as I’m finding, reaching out to those individuals — although it’s going pretty well, great to catch up — nine years is a long time. A lot happens.

(18:45):

New business arrangements are created. And that’s the biggest thing. Even if I got to meet someone, there was no strategy for follow-up. There was no strategy to keep them engaged. It was: focus on the next project, sell that project, learn your competition — but past clients really weren’t nurtured the way they should be.

Chris Cook (19:09):

And do you think that’s a symptom of that industry, or was it something that … Had you done that, had you been a lot more conscious about that throughout the years of doing it, do you think you would have sold more pre-construction or had more people come to

Dave Bailis (19:27):

You? Sorry. I was going to say, I probably would have segued out of pre-construction quicker if I had that kind of confidence.

(19:34):

I think it’s a little bit of column A and column B — it was frowned upon. It almost wasn’t necessary because we were able to make very good income without all the nitty-gritty, just moving on to the next. So a lot of it was — as my previous broker called me — a bit of a spoiled house cat in that regard, because it was very set hours, people come to you. But certainly in hindsight, I wish I would have nurtured those along the way, because if I knew I was going to end up as much more of a full-service realtor, obviously that would have been huge value. But I’ll admit, I thought I was going to be able to sail off into the sunset in that career, but due to some unforeseen and foreseen events, that’s not a reality. And I think we’ve talked about it — I think it’ll be a long time before pre-construction sales at any kind of volume makes a lot of sense, and by then AI will be doing the job for us.

Chris Cook (20:33):

Right. And I think that’s the big thing. There are big parts of that that are going to affect all parts of this business. I think that we’re going to see parts of the job that we’ve been doing being taken over by automations, by AI, by outsourcing. There are all kinds of different ways that our businesses are going to be … I’m not going to say under attack, but where we really need to focus on the things that we are essential for. Which — we’ve talked about this — I think the essential part of our business is in the consulting.

Dave Bailis (21:18):

Consulting for sure. And also crisis management — that’s still out of the realm of AI. When the last day before closing something falls through, you’re getting that call and you’re going to have to fix it.

Chris Cook (21:30):

And

Dave Bailis (21:31):

That’s a hard thing for AI to branch out and figure out on the fly, I think.

Chris Cook (21:35):

Yeah. Well, and this is where I think — maybe not AI, but certainly automations and systems. I had somebody that told me once, “The only real estate emergency is the one you’ve created.” And usually it’s because you missed something, because there was something that you could have done differently. And maybe you’ve been getting away with it for years, it just hasn’t shown up, but this time it did. And that’s where I think we’re going with this industry — I think it’s going to really hurt the role that you were in before, from a pre-con standpoint, like just receiving people and dealing out product, versus really understanding what people’s problems are and how to solve them. Where do you direct somebody that maybe doesn’t know?

Dave Bailis (22:23):

Yeah. It’s much easier for a tech team to preload iPads with all the inventory on a grid and just have a kiosk for people to press buttons, whereas when you have to find a trade last minute or a subprime lender, these kinds of things are very outside the box. And I’m sure AI will get there one day, but I think we’ve got a little bit of runway on that.

Chris Cook (22:48):

I do too. And this is where I think the industry, as it’s going to evolve here, is going to be really fascinating. But I do think at least within our professional lifetimes, it’s like a phrase that I like: “Within my professional lifetime, this industry will continue to exist.” The question is, how are you going to adapt?

Dave Bailis (23:11):

Exactly. And how are you going to incorporate those tools to show you’re cutting edge, but also actually have them assist you in your job because they’re designed for that.

Chris Cook (23:25):

I personally believe that more and more our consumers, they’re not looking for somebody to sit with them and go through checklists. They want that stuff delivered to them. They want to be able to do it in their living room once you’ve gone home. There are some things that I think historically realtors have done as acts of service that have just become a little bit of a time suck — not just for them, but for their client as well. And there are some ways that you can certainly adapt your business to service them better. I always kind of think about the difference between a millennial and a boomer. How do you onboard a millennial seller versus somebody that’s lived in their home for the last 40 years and whose idea of tech is an email?

Dave Bailis (24:16):

Exactly.

Chris Cook (24:16):

And so you’ve still got to be able to bridge that gap here. It’s an interesting time in history where we have this huge gap, but that is going away really, really quickly.

Dave Bailis (24:26):

It is. And I think that one of the biggest changes — as we’ve joked about, I tend to get worked up over tech sometimes — but it’s amazing how much it’s been simplified. Like, you can send even a boomer a Loom video and they’re going to be able to figure it out and see the value. So it’s just a matter of introducing these things in a non-intimidating way to that kind of generation.

Chris Cook (24:49):

You mean your generation?

Dave Bailis (24:54):

I straddle the two generations, I think.

Chris Cook (24:56):

Yeah. I’m a little bit older than you. And there are sometimes where I’m just like, “What has become of my world?” I didn’t have a cell phone until I was 27 years old.

Dave Bailis (25:05):

I remember when Dave, our friend, got one of the first pagers in the school, and he obviously was Mr. Popular if he needed a pager.

Chris Cook (25:14):

Yeah, beep, beep, beep. Yeah. Was he selling real estate or was he —

Dave Bailis (25:17):

He was a cutting-edge realtor, running to the payphone to make

Chris Cook (25:21):

Those

Dave Bailis (25:21):

Callbacks.

Chris Cook (25:22):

Yeah. It is an amazing time. And I think one of the biggest things from a tech side … I remember when I got in the business and I really wanted to embrace tech and I had DocuSign. And this was when we were still at that point sitting in our cars and going in and presenting to the seller. And then we’d go back and sit in our car and you’d see the next agent go in and present. And I got a call and they were like, “Can you improve?” Basically. And I was like, “Yeah, let me see what I can do.” So I called my people, I had my laptop with me, had it tethered to my phone, and got them to make an improvement and then submitted that within a 10-minute window. The other guys had to do it all by hand and do all this stuff.

(26:14):

And so I had it emailed to them before anybody else did. And I remember the agent was like, “Oh my God, this is brilliant.” And then I did a tiny scanner thing. I had all this stuff on my phone and I ended up getting the deal because of the tech. And my clients weren’t sitting with me at the time. They were at home.

Dave Bailis (26:33):

And I was thinking that if you went back a few years before that, the clients would have to sit there with you in the car

Chris Cook (26:39):

If

Dave Bailis (26:39):

They really wanted a property.

Chris Cook (26:40):

Well, when I bought my first home, yeah, I was sitting in the car with my realtor and my wife was … I was in the back seat. Actually, my wife was in the front seat with … And yeah, we were signing all the stuff in the car in the dark. It was crazy. Well,

Dave Bailis (26:55):

Thank goodness we can avoid some of those steps, but it’s impressive, and I’ve been very impressed with your use of tech. A little disappointed in my comprehension, but I’ll get there. But all across the board, it’s very clean. The branding you guys offer is a big part of why I was drawn to work with you guys. And I definitely prefer you as a skipper or boat captain over my father, who was my previous boat captain.

Chris Cook (27:23):

And I also, to say — I think this whole brokerage has really pulled itself into the 21st century. Is it the 21st century now? I always get confused.

Dave Bailis (27:36):

Yes, still.

Chris Cook (27:41):

All the different things that are becoming available, I think it can get overwhelming for everybody involved — not just the realtors, but also the consumers. But I do believe that what we’re going to see in our business is that things are going to get a lot easier in terms of getting the deals done, which in turn, I think what’s going to end up happening is a lot fewer agents are going to be doing more of the deals. That imbalance is going to start swinging more in favour of the people that have embraced technology and advancement, the people that have grown teams. I think the teams are going to become a really big component. It’s actually really quite shocking to me that there’s not a requirement for new agents to join a team for a year. If you think about electricians and plumbers and all these other trades —

Dave Bailis (28:36):

They have to do apprenticeships.

Chris Cook (28:38):

And they’re five years.

Dave Bailis (28:39):

Yeah. Where even a year for a realtor under a team dynamic would go so far — it would not only help them and help the brokerage, it’d help the consumers, I mean, in some cases.

Chris Cook (28:51):

Not in some cases. And

Dave Bailis (28:52):

Many.

Chris Cook (28:53):

A lot of cases. I think about my first year in the business and I was very fortunate to have some friends that were in the business that really helped me through it, but I actively looked for a team for a long time. And unfortunately, I just wasn’t able to find the right fit. I felt like they were all trying to extract something from me rather than offering anything of value. But now, over the last 10 years, I’ve seen the complexity and how well supported agents are within teams, specifically at this brokerage. We’ve got over a hundred teams at this brokerage. That’s a lot of choice if you’re looking — if you’re a new agent and you’re like, “Where should I go?” You’ve got some teams that offer less support but much better splits, some that have way worse splits but way better support, some people that have a lot of opportunity, other people have brand.

(29:52):

That would be my thing. And why I was — I think it’s a testament to you — to say, “You’re a smart guy. You could figure this out, but it’d be a much faster journey if you just hooked up with somebody that knew what they were doing.” I think that was a really smart move.

Dave Bailis (30:08):

And also, I totally agree with everything you just said. And then there’s also the factor of I’ve known your partner for many, many years — Dave Ferris — and to see someone that I know who has achieved that success goes a long way. It becomes tangible. And that meant a lot for me.

Chris Cook (30:24):

I know

Dave Bailis (30:26):

If I could see my good friend go from where he was five years ago to the confidence he projects now, obviously there’s a good team and foundation behind that.

Chris Cook (30:37):

Yeah.

Dave Bailis (30:38):

And you’ve also mentioned that to properly service a client, at least in this day and age, you almost need two heads. So to try to do that all on your own and not drop the ball at some point is very difficult without help.

Chris Cook (30:53):

Well, I think that that’s a really good point. And it’s something that a lot of people come into this business and it’s a common thing where they’re like, “If you want to get busy, just book a vacation.” Murphy’s

Dave Bailis (31:08):

Law.

Chris Cook (31:09):

I can spot a realtor on the beach a mile away because they’re pacing back and forth on the beach. Yeah, you can see the stress in the way that they are. And I was just like, man, if you had somebody that you could pass that business off to and you could go and actually enjoy yourself — the quality of life you’d have, the energy that you would bring back to your business. This is why I think being a solo agent is a little bit of self-sabotage. Yeah. Why make

Dave Bailis (31:38):

It so difficult on yourself?

Chris Cook (31:40):

Yeah, you don’t get to step away. The phone’s always ringing. You feel like you’re always on call. That’s no way to live. I tried it for a long time. It’s hard.

Dave Bailis (31:52):

Work-life balance is important. And on the topic of teams and branding, it helps when you have such a strong brand like RE/MAX behind you. It’s been established for so many years as the top tier — or at least amongst the top tier — of trusted names in real estate. And the other thing I found is I think I would’ve been under the assumption that in a competitive business, there wouldn’t be so much helpfulness within the brokerage, but absolutely wrong in that. Everyone I’ve met there is so willing to help. Even across brokerages, it’s a very friendly business — at least, I guess, until the offer gates. But in general, it’s pleasantly surprising.

Chris Cook (32:35):

Well, I think that the market right now is really conducive to cooperation as well. Yes. People really are trying to make deals happen. There’s a lot less hurt feelings and a lot more negotiations back and forth. The conversations that agents are having with their clients versus what they’re having with other agents. And you’d mentioned, actually, you’ve got this really big database of other agents. I think right now the value of that is much greater than it’s ever been. If you’ve got a listing and it’s in an area that you’re not so sure about, your client has some anxiety about going out on the market, and you could make 100, 150 phone calls to people that you’ve done business with in the past and say, “Hey, listen, you got any buyers for this? Maybe we could do something off-market.”

Dave Bailis (33:28):

It’s true.

Chris Cook (33:30):

There’s a lot of value to that for you, but also for your client.

Dave Bailis (33:35):

Yes. It’s again, similar to the off-market properties — it’s a way to add value beyond MLS, new pipelines for them to sell or buy through. And another phenomenon is many of these teams have grown to the extent that if you know the team lead, they’re sharing whatever it is you have to share with 60 agents. The

Chris Cook (33:57):

Chances

Dave Bailis (33:58):

Of getting some traction there goes up exponentially in that scenario.

Chris Cook (34:02):

Yeah. Yeah. So I think this is a time — just to wrap up — but I think this is an interesting time in general where we’re seeing a lot of change in the market, change that I don’t think is necessarily going to go away anytime soon. I really do believe we’ve got to get used to what’s happening right now as the norm. I think we’ve got to … It’s never been more important to build relationships and community. It’s never been more important to grow your database essentially and meet people. I think that the internet is so saturated right now that it’s become a noisy place to try to solicit future business.

Dave Bailis (34:52):

Yeah. Even with the reach-it grants, it’s so saturated that it’s almost a limitation. Whereas you can meet one person on the street, at a restaurant, in a mall, and their own personal network — if they like you and trust you and you add value to them — can spread probably more effectively than a post that gets a million impressions.

Chris Cook (35:15):

Sure. And I mean, I guess the other thing too — to continue on the conversation, even though we’re going to wrap it up — but I asked you, did you wish that maybe you’d spent some more time nurturing that database of people you’d worked with? I would say anybody that goes through their best clients, the people that have used them in the past and that refer them — there are clients that I’ve transacted with or who have directly referred me. And when you start adding it up, over the years, these people feed your business. And we’re talking many multiples of hundreds of thousands of dollars coming in just because of one really good contact that you serviced, where you really did your job, you serviced them to the greatest possible potential that was there. And then all of the things that come from that. So even if you just had seven or eight of those people, that can feed your business really, really well without you having to go and fish all the time.

Dave Bailis (36:24):

If you do the kind of job that they can’t help but refer you, and you continue on that level of quality, it’s a real ripple effect that can work wonders. And it doesn’t always come from the places you imagine. It could be someone that’s maybe never going to buy, but knows a whole group of people who are — or sellers — vice

Chris Cook (36:42):

Versa. Our boy, Andrew Duncan — he’s never used me for real estate, but he put me in touch with David, who put me in touch with you, our cleaner, all of these people that have come from one person that I met.

Dave Bailis (36:58):

And in a different sector of business,

Chris Cook (37:01):

They’re not real estate.

(37:05):

He’s referred me plenty, but he’s never used me personally. And I looked at it the other day and I was like, that one person, that one contact has really changed my entire sphere — most of the people that I hang out with on a regular basis. So the takeaway for me is: for you, you’re coming to this with a lot of real estate experience, not necessarily in resale, but I think a different mindset than I would’ve expected for a lot of people coming from pre-construction, where you were dealing with a lot of online leads, to understanding the value of creating relationships and really becoming service-oriented — a consultant, basically, instead of a salesperson.

Dave Bailis (37:54):

Yes. And that’s been really refreshing — to go back to that style, or that sector, of promoting yourself and helping people and providing a service, rather than just trying to show someone numbers, trying to be one of the million financial advisors out there. It’s much more rewarding to be helping real people find homes.

Chris Cook (38:22):

Well, Dave, I of course wish you all the best of success. I know you’re going to find it — you’re in the right place. Certainly, this environment has, for me, been absolutely outstanding, and you surround yourself with winners, you can’t help but become a winner yourself.

Dave Bailis (38:40):

Strongly agree. Very happy to be aboard.

Chris Cook (38:43):

All right. Thanks so much.

Dave Bailis (38:44):

Take care.